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Relevant info

I propose that this article should only document pregnancies discussed or shown on the show. For example, I don't think the fact that Charlie's mother was once pregnant with Charlie is relevant, since it was never discussed in Lost.

Agreed? -- Dagg talk contribs4 8 17:31, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree, otherwise the graphs would be too complicated, with the mother and father of Locke, Kate, Jack, Claire and Sawyer etc. It isn't needed--Phil (talk) 17:33, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree but... had anyone actually been doing otherwise? --Jackdavinci 23:43, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

• Yes, check the history. A bunch of unseen pregnancies were added (Charlie's birth, Jack's birth, etc), but they have been reverted. -- Dagg talk contribs4 8 07:10, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

Purpose of article

As of right now, the article is covering both individual pregnancies (the later sections and the table) and general pregnancy/fertility related issues of the people on the Island (the first section). Does anyone disagree with continuing to move in this direction? Dharmatel4 23:16, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree.--Ghtx 11:15, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Proposed new table format

It looks like we could copy the table format from Military, and use something like this:

Mother	Father	Notes
Cassidy Phillips	James "Sawyer" Ford	Cassidy told Sawyer that he was the father of her baby (pictured right). ("Every Man for Himself") Cassidy told Kate that she was pregnant. ("Left Behind")
Katherine Austen	Kevin Callis	Kate told Sun that she once took a pregnancy test. ("The Whole Truth") Kate told her husband that her pregnancy test was negative. ("I Do")
Sun-Hwa Kwon	Unknown	Sun was told she is not able to get pregnant, because her husband Jin is infertile. ("The Whole Truth") Sun took a pregnancy test (pictured right), and is confirmed pregnant. ("The Whole Truth") Sun reveals to Jin that she is pregnant, and swears that she has been faithful. ("The Whole Truth") In an earlier flashback, Jae Lee and Sun had sex. ("The Glass Ballerina")

How does this look? -- Dagg talk contribs4 8 21:49, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

I like this idea.--Phil (talk) 12:10, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I prefer the current template. Its smaller and says the facts. We don't necessarily need a huge template, just a mother, possible father, result, child name. Simple --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:40, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Test Results

I know it's just a result of the format of the table, but it seems a bit odd to have "pregnancy test result" for many of the characters for which we didn't see them take a test. We only saw Claire, Kate, Rachel and Sun's experiences firsthand. How can we assume that Danielle, for example, ever took a test? Bellemichelle 08:40, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

We do not know she took a test, but we know she was pregnant, which is what the table is for--Phil (talk) 12:11, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Yes, I get that, but as a column in the table, "test results" is odd to have when we're not sure that all the pregnant women used pregnancy tests. It might seem a bit nitpicky, but since we didn't see a bunch of characters take tests, I don't want to presume. Bellemichelle 12:55, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Oops, to answer my own concern, I see it's been changed to "positive pregnancy". That works! Bellemichelle 12:56, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Redundancies

Section one of this article lists "observations" of pregancies, section two lists "occurrences" and includes a table, and section three lists "case studies." Why does this article need to mention four times that Claire was pregnant? I propose cleaning it up into just two main sections (as suggested earlier by Dharmatel4): one about the "pregnancy sickness" and one about all of the pregnancies. --Ghtx 11:18, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree, case studies seems to just have a lot of repetition from occurrences (which IMO is a better written section anyway). I would just merge and remove the whole case study section. Those quote marks are also a little irritating under every case study. I do prefer that new template infobox listing pregnancies though, and the ticks and crosses are cool --Nickb123 (Talk) 11:21, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

OK. I deleted the "case studies".--Ghtx 14:06, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

Immune disorders and invading fetuses???

Where does this information about Juliet finding a cure, but the cure causing an "immune disorder" and fetuses to act like "invaders", come from? As far as I know, women on the Island who got pregnant died, and they brought Juliet in to fix that. I don't remember anything about how Juliet's cure caused the women to die. Am I missing something or is someone adding conjecture? --Ghtx 11:53, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

There's a lot of conjecture in the article, and I think people need clarification on what we do and do not know. --Nickb123 (Talk) 11:58, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I think the issue is that there's confusion about what people see as the problem with the women. My personal understanding is that for some reason, the Island causes the pregnant woman's body to attack the fetus and all that, which can kill both mother and child. However, some are drawing on Alpert's example scan he first showed Juliet when introducing Mittelos Bioscience, of a woman in her 20s with a 70+ reproductive system. The reason I don't support this is that they were getting pregnant without Juliet's help, but kept dying after becoming pregnant. Thus, the former about the foreign invader thing seems more likely. If necessary, we could do a school of thought thing under "Island properties" subheading or something. I would draft but there seems like 3 people in an edit war at the moment so I'll wait til later --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:09, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

"they were getting pregnant without Juliet's help, but kept dying after becoming pregnant"

Where was this established? Dharmatel4 12:12, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

As far as I know, everything in the article is covered in the episodes.

• She is a fertility expert. Her research on the outside was in getting women like her sister with damaged reproductive systems (by cancer treatment in that case) pregnant. She was brought to the island to do for them what she did for her sister.

• She says "the mothers body turns on the baby and treats it as a foreign invader" in One of Us. She may be lying, but it makes some sense.

• The only thing Juliet is known to be lying about is the drug she administers to Claire. That does not appear to be her drug. Its the DHARMA Initiative drug that Ethan gave to Claire and Desmond took at the Swan.

• Juliet's fertility treatment did not cause anyone to die. But it uncovered a second medical problem when the women became pregnant that led to death. They can become pregnant now, but they die during pregnancy.

If anyone has questions or wants cites for specific things in the article, list them out and I'll do my best to answer them. Dharmatel4 12:12, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I've outlined the article as two separate possible issues. We all know the second, cannot give birth and dying, is the main one, but there is some evidence of an infertility issue I'll concede (though I personally disagree with it being the "problem" Ben speaks of, I have to be objective). I'm gonna just finish off the main bit, then I suggest we consider whether to get rid of that case study thing --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:27, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Look, at this point just get rid of it. Every sentance now argues against the point it was trying to make. Its worse than useless. Dharmatel4 12:49, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Well I'd like to hear other user comments, particularly those who raised it in the first place. --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:53, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I raised the issue in the first place when I rewrote the first section of the article yesterday. Could you please at least consider getting rid of or modifying the second paragraph:

"It has not been explicitly stated that this problem was solved by Juliet's research, or indeed even actually existed, but we know that while Juliet was on the Island, women were dying after becoming pregnant, suggesting that the problem was no longer an issue, if ever it was to begin with."

• The "indeed even actually existed" should be removed because its a negative speculation partially countered by what was shown in actual episodes.

• The rest of the material is simply stating what is going to be said in the next paragraph anyway.

• redundantly saying "if ever it was to begin with" is really bad wording. Its just piling on to say that someone doesn't agree with what is said at all.

Considering that I've now given up on everything else, can you at least meet me halfway on this? Dharmatel4 13:22, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

The main reason it was merged into the section previous to where you want it is cause it confounded with the facts. Its easier to give it a separate area like I did than to add a debateable point in a section thats trying to clarify things. For example, at the moment the whole DHARMA drug and Juliet drug confounds the main text which is supposedly making sense of things. I wanna see other user comments before there's any big removing tbh --Nickb123 (Talk) 13:41, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Where is Claire seen injected with Juilet's drug?

Where is Claire seen to be injected with Juilet's drug? As far as I've looked, everything she was injected with was the Dharma Initiative drug same as at the Swan. On the beach, Juliet was not telling the truth given that those are Dharma bottles with the same markings as before. It can't be Juilet's drug. Dharmatel4 12:41, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Right but when she says about her serum "Ethan was administering the injections". And to be fair, you don't even know that Juliet didn't keep her serum in the DHARMA bottles or something. We know she did make some kind of drug to keep the women alive during pregnancy, and Claire was a control case conceiving off-island. Her story, though in parts a story like Mikhail's, like Ben's, does seem to have elements of truth --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:45, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

The vials Ethan injected her with are labelled "CR 4-81516-23 42". Same number as in the Swan. Anything is possible I guess, but its unlikely that anyone would prepare new medication in old bottles with wrong labels and no other indication of changed content. Dharmatel4 14:18, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

During the beach injection scene, the bottles are not visible on screen (at least not on non-high def). During the kit recovery scene at the tree, the Dharma logo is not visible on the bottles, as they were in the flashback/flashback scene to "the Staff" with Ethan injecting Claire. Juliet most likely injected Claire neither with her drug nor with Dharma Rx-1, but rather with a 3rd drug to counteract whatever was activated in the implant.--Eyeful Tower 15:44, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Henrieta

Should Henrieta, mentioned in the other woman, be added to the list of pregnant women? Congested|talk|contributions 21:17, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Punishment

There's a section on the theories page entitled Punishment. It does not deal with Pregnancies, so I don't think it should be there. However, I don't think it should be trashed, either. I can't think of a good place to move it. Any ideas?--Jim in Georgia Talk Contribs 09:32, 27 July 2008 (PDT)

Disregard, please. There's been a cleanup.--Jim in Georgia Talk Contribs 10:43, 29 July 2008 (PDT)