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This page is for discussion of the character named in "I Do". In light of the minimal amount of information known about the character, please discuss any major changes of fact on the discussion page, or provide a link to an official source. As always, please adhere to the Lostpedia theory policy. Thanks, and namaste --   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 19:40, 8 November 2006 (PST)

Preview of "The Man From Tallahassee"

In the preview of "The Man From Tallahassee" we see a man pointing a gun at Kate and asking her a question, which Jack tells her to answer. There is a good chance that this could be Jacob. PatrickLacey

Nah, I find it implausible that "Jacob" would do that himself. That's a job for the grunts.C.m. 11:09, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

Another Ethan

It could be that another Other, much like Ethan's position, infiltrated the Midsection survivors, and Jacob was the one who created the list. While he could be high up, he could also be low down, grunt work. This is just a possibility, althought I personnaly believe that it is Him or at least another high-up. --Turniphead Danny 21:12, 8 November 2006 (PST)

minor edit to be made

Just a minor edit to the article, since I find it has been protected: It was Jason that named Jacob in this episode, not Danny. --Aero*Zeppelin 22:01, 8 November 2006 (PST)

I just went back to the tivo and watched the scene again. It was most definitely Danny Picket with the line. --   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 22:36, 8 November 2006 (PST)

My mind must be playing tricks on me. At least it's not a major detail or plot point about who said it. --Aero*Zeppelin 22:56, 8 November 2006 (PST)

I was watching in HDTV and saw Danny's lips moving. Perhaps the SDTV version didn't show that. --   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   -

C I have been doing some comparison research on Jacob references. Please read this theory on what the particle physics are in relation to the island. Also, for a discription of what is going on and why know one can find the island and flight 815!!

On the island, it seems they've imagined that the extreme electromagnetic field is enough to make the Casimir effect felt at the macroscopic level rather than only at the microscopic one. Since the Casimir effect is only felt inside a contained space, it would imply that the island is (or was) indeed contained inside a "bubble", probably by its own electromagnetic field.

Since we are dealing with Quantum and Particle Physics, the reason to keep the two rabbits(Station 6 video reference [[1]] )apart could also involve Matter/Antimatter. This could explain the recovery of flight 815 and the outside world thinking they are all dead. It would be a sort of "Hawking Effect": Particles seem to escape from a black hole when, in reality, it is one half of a matter/antimatter couple that avoids the boundary of the black hole while its counterpart gets absorbed. The boundary here, instead of a black hole, would be the electromagnetic field. Dharma may thought they had found a way to shift the boundary. Maybe they weren't as good as they thought and it led to the catastrophic event that required pushing the numbers. For flight 815, the bodies recovered would be the matter half and our Losties are part of the antimatterial world. That would explain why Jack would want to get the hell out of that future.

I then referenced the specifics on matter and antimatter in relations to the Station 6 Orchid video released last summer [[2]]. It would support the two 815 plane's and two Rabbit 15's.

I then referenced the Hawking Effect and found something very very startling!!!!

In physics, Hawking radiation (also known as Bekenstein-Hawking radiation) is a thermal radiation with a black body spectrum predicted to be emitted by black holes due to "quantum effects". It is named after the British physicist Stephen Hawking who provided the theoretical argument for its existence in 1974, and sometimes also after the Israeli physicist Jacob Bekenstein who predicted that black holes should have a finite, non-zero temperature and entropy.

Jacob David Bekenstein (born May 1, 1947) is a physicist who has contributed to the foundation of black hole thermodynamics and to other aspects of the connections between information and gravitation.

In 1972, Bekenstein was the first to suggest that black holes should have a well-defined entropy. Bekenstein also formulated the generalized second law of thermodynamics black hole thermodynamics for systems including black holes. Both contributions were affirmed when Stephen Hawking proposed the existence of Hawking radiation two years later.

Based on his black-hole thermodynamics work, Bekenstein also demonstrated the remarkable fact that there is a maximum to the amount of information that can potentially be stored in a given volume, and that this maximum is proportional to the area that bounds this volume and not to the volume itself (related to the holographic principle).

In 1982, Bekenstein was the first person to develop a rigorous framework to generalize the laws of electromagnetism to handle inconstant physical constants. His framework replaces the fine structure constant by a scalar field. However, this framework for changing constants did not incorporate gravity.

In [[2004]], Bekenstein greatly boosted Mordehai Milgrom's theory of Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND) by developing a relativistic version. It is known as TeVeS for Tensor/Vector/Scalar and it introduces three different fields in space time to replace the one gravitational field.

Even the picture looks similar to Jacob in the Season 3 finally!(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Bekenstein)

This might be going out on a limb but his Acadmeic Advisor was John Wheeler (John Locke in Wheelchair reference???)

--JonHSanAntonio 14:26, 15 January 2008 (PST)

Jacob is a pseudonym

• Since Jacob made a list, and it seems that someone has to know the Lostaways in order to make such a list, the mention of Jacob may mean that there is another "mole" among the Lostaways. It could be Paolo...why else take such trouble to introduce characters as if they had been there all along, instead of just bringing them to the island via another balloon/boat/whatever accident?
  • Except that in the first episode of Season 3, Ben addresses Ethan and Goodwin by name, indicating that they did not use fake names with the survivors. If Jacob were working among the survivors, why wouldn't he use his real name too?
    • Also i really dont understand why its hard for people to beleive that P+N have been there all the time, they obviously have, they are just brang forward to main characters now, and why havnt we seen them before? Because they havnt been casted by the production team! Now they have, so now they are there, CC and DL have always said they allowed so many survivors so they can bring them forward when they want. Another also, is that Hurley made a manifest, and so that would have stopped them infiltrating, people would have noticed if they just recently arrived. --lewisg 01:13, 10 November 2006 (PST)
      • If they had just arrived it would make the plot of exposé wrong, they wouldn't be fighting over the diamonds and they wouldn't bother faking not findding them in the lake. It would also make no sense that they were fighting and ended up killing each other. I think that Paulo and Nikki were definately on the plane. Hurley would have spotted it in the manafest too. Jazza 04:49, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Anyone else think Jacob is a lot like The Ruler of the Universe in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? "Well, we really don't have enough info to determine, aside from the fact that he lives alone in a cabin.--Sam McPherson 09:22, 25 January 2008 (PST)

Coincidence, I'm sure...

But, one of the more memorable lines form the 1990 movie "Jacob's Ladder" was louis saying: "Eckhart saw Hell too. He said: The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you, he said. They're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and... and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth"

Sounds kinda like losties and the others.... -Calicojack42 12:19, 10 November 2006 (PST)

Theory

'Just a thought - but could the reason Jack is not on Jacobs list be because Jack IS Jacob?' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dhopwp? (talk • contribs) .

• Um... wouldn't the Others know that?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stripes (talk • contribs) .
• This is likely to be related to the dark side of Jack's which Matthew Fox has talked about in a recent interview (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/01/10/ap3318880.html).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stan (talk • contribs) .

Sorry, I find the Jack=Jacob theory to be utterly ridiculous. The show gives us a great deal of insight into Jack's history and emotions. He's obviously frightened by the fact that he's held captive by the Others. Even tho he keeps a level head and doesn't let the fear control him, it's pretty obvious that he's there against his will. I don't see any way the storyline could possibly make sense if Jack turned out to be an Other, much less the LEADER of the Others.C.m. 09:57, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• Why would Ben let Jack go if he was Jacob? Ben always seemed scared of Jacob but Ben was never scared of Jack, even when his life was in Jack's hands. Also, how could Jack have cured Rachel from the Island? --Jazza 04:51, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

Quote location

Can someone tell me when the quote was said (begining, mid, end) thanx --Zeke 12:41, 14 November 2006 (PST)

The Twins

If Lost follows literature such as the Bible, and in the Bible Jacob had a twin brother, doesn't that mean Jacob would have been on the boat that destroyed the raft?--Phil 12:03, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Wait, why would that have to be the case? I'm not following. Which story of Jacob and Esau in the bible are you referring to? Hunter 13:00, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Esau was the first born twin, and Isaac's favorite. He was intended to get his father's inheritance. Their mother, Rebecca, favored Jacob and I believe God did, too. Jacob was able to trick Esau out of his birthright, and with the help of his mother, fool Isaac into bestowing it to him instead. When they were born, Jacob came out after Esau clutching his older brother's foot. (To supplant.) Stab in the dark here, "Jacob" could refer to a person or people who were not the first (to whatever), but were granted the "right" (again, to whatever.) Bun bun 09:31, 11 March 2007 (PDT)

Jacob was also the civilized one while Esau lived wild in the wilderness. Esau could be whatever John is calling "the island". Esau was a hunter and John is a wannabe hunter too. The book of Malachi clearly says God hated Esau and loved Jacob. But all the text concerning the two is strange. Half the time, they are portrayed as co-existing but seperate branches of a family. Half the time they are discussed as enternal enemies (Esau). Dharmatel4 22:22, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Name confusion

It is possible that the possesive of the name (Jacobs', as a surname) has been confused with a given name (Jacob's). This implies that the surname could belong to any other castaway or Other.

Are closed captions available for the episode and this particular line? --Stan 09:02, 28 January 2007 (PST)

That is a possiblility but closed captions says Jacob's.--CaptainInsano 09:04, 28 January 2007 (PST)

• This would depend on who wrote the closed captions, they could not be accurate as to whether they are Jacobs' or Jacob's unless they were written from a script --Jazza 04:54, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

This is not longer important, since it was confirmed by both producers and Ben as "Jacob". --Sauron18 14:01, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

Jacob and the Pearl Station

I think that one simple way to make a list of the losties without being among them is to watch them with the camera of the Dharma's station. So Jacob could be the one who was smoking the cigarette in The Pearl before Locke and Eko come in (and hiding in the bathroom "found" by Paulo on the second visit). ...And also it could be Patchy, that moved to another station when Eko and Locke went out, but still watching everything, even from another station. --andreapasotti, 28 January 2007

I want to agree with the "Patchy" theory - if you look at patchy s page, it has the guy who played him on it, who is also the guy who is in the picture of "Jacob Vanderfield" on his own page. when Mittelwork took over, he sent Jacob to the island to be in charge of the work still going on there. --kojak_k Feb 9, 2007

Possible Connection to The Lost Experience

This past summer as people were participating in The Lost Experience, people were told that this would enhance knowledge of the Lost mythology for Season 3. This being said, "Jacob" could refer to Jacob Vanderfield, one of the characters referenced during The Lost Experience. This could allow for non-Lost Experience viewers to learn about Mittelwerk and Alvar Hanso. Belle42 22:46, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

Jacob is Him?

removed from main article for discussion
See also: Talk:Him#Merge_with_Jacob

• Jacob is Him, as confirmed by producers in Official Lost Podcast/March 20, 2007

I didn't get the impression that Damon and Carlton gave us a definite answer on this one. Please discuss.    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 11:07, 21 March 2007 (PDT)

• I believe they did. It will be more clear when someone does a transcript of it but it seemed pretty explicit to me. I'm going togo try find the section so I can quote it. --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  11:08, 21 March 2007 (PDT)
• At 24:40 Carlton says: "... I think it would be fair to say that the 'Him' Brady Hardin is referring to would be Jacob." Subsequent conversation introduces ambiguity, but it sounds to me like a question of whether Him/Jacob exists or is a construct of The Others. Not so much whether or not both names refer to the same entity.--Bastion 11:43, 21 March 2007 (PDT)
• Indeed, it's a pretty definite answer. --Sauron18 14:43, 21 March 2007 (PDT)

Jacob my be Him in fact I'm 99.9% sure that he is but lets not merge it yet if we did it now it would just be a big spoiler.--SAGE18 14:54, 21 March 2007 (PDT)

Well it's not exactly a spoiler, but rather a clarification. As a wiki, though we don't reveal things known through spoilers, we do do it when something in question is clarified. This question was already existant, whether or not Jacob was Him, but the producers clarified it. While I see your point, both articles should still mention the fact that they are one and the same, at least if we decide to not merge them. --Sauron18 14:57, 21 March 2007 (PDT)

They answered my question quite straight forward. I believe that the article needs to be merged. It may be a big revealation on the show, but it the exec. producers deemed it appropriate to tell us that the "Him" is indeed "Jacob", it is okay for us to know that. They are the ones that should decide what ought to be spoiled or not. Its their job. So at this point, I feel we need to merge these two articles because they made the answer clear to us.--Brady 14:39, 27 March 2007 (PDT)

Jacob has now also been confirmed as Him in the show as well. Ben said to Juliet in One of Us: " Jacob said he would take care of it himself. Unless, of course you don't have faith in Him." --NSHS07 (talk) 20:27, 11 April 2007 (PDT)

Indeed, close captions even italized the "HIM" in the sentence. It's not spoilery anymore. --Sauron18 20:29, 11 April 2007 (PDT)

ITS BEEN CONFIRMED YOU MAY ASWELL MERGE IT. WITH THE CONFIRMATION SOURCE IN TRIVIA. - KevGGrif

• Jacob is Him, the leader of the Others, but we still need a "Him" page for the person Desmond and Kelvin kept asking about. --Jackdavinci 16:10, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

No we don't, the "Him" Desmond and Kelvin were referring to was their replacement in the Swan hatch. But if you must keep the page, at least take it out of "the Others" section.--Catalanowned 00:22, 14 April 2007 (PDT)

I think we need the "him" page for the him Desmond and Kelvin asked about, because it seems much more specific then simply waiting for the replacements, as they even had a code to ask "him". --Integrated 01:23, 16 April 2007 (GMT)

A Strange Voice Saying "Are You Alright?"

So I just watched "One of Us" last night, as you all did. I thought that during one of the secenes--I believe it was the last flashback, where Ben and Juliet are discussing how Juliet will infiltrate the Survivor's camp--right at the end of their discussion, this strange voice says "are you alright?" I'm pretty sure I heard it, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ben's voice. It was a strange, old voice. Speaker wasn't shown. I wonder if this was Jacob/Him. AM I IMAGINING THIS? Am I crazy? Does anyone else think they heard this, too?C.m. 11:15, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

I heard it. I'm confident it was Ben, confirming that she was really on-board with the plan and ready to go because she seemed to be somewhat detached. (And, for what it's worth, I think Juliet's on Juliet's side. Noone else's.) --Bastion 12:02, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

I also heard it, I'm not sure whether it was Ben or not but maybe it will be explained in a forthcoming episode.--Jazza 04:55, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

Jacob & Mr. Linderman from "Heroes"

I just noticed something that I think we should mention. Anyone familiar with "Heroes" knows that for the greater part of season 1, Mr. Linderman [3] was the unseen yet often spoken about leader of the antagonists, much like Jacob. Well, recently I read that it was revealed in one of the tied in comics that Linderman actually has the ability to heal other people, much like our friend Jacob. Both were unseen leaders of the antagonists who can heal other people.

I think we should mention it as trivia, especially considering how people see many ties between the two series. Opinions? --Sauron18 17:03, 12 April 2007 (PDT) I say YES! KevGGrif

Sure. I like that connection. BETTYFIZZW (Talk) 10:45, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

Sure worth a mention, but Linderman was mentioned WAY WAY more in Heroes than Jacob was in Lost. Linderman was practically a main character beforeever appearing. Integrated 01:20 16th April 2007 (GMT)

True, but that's mainly because Linderman's "cronies" weren't really important, whereas here all of the Others are sort of important, and so we had to go one mystery at a time. --Sauron18 14:21, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

I think you're looking for a connection between two TV shows that really doesn't exist. While it's similar thematically, this type of thing is done all the time in TV. Even Exposé had the mysterious "Cobra".    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 10:44, 20 April 2007 (PDT)

Yes but the Cobra doesn't cure people, nor do other unseen characters in other shows.But on the other hand, Linderman was seen on-screen very soon after his revealing and he wasn't such a mysterius character such as Jacob is\was.Plus there are many bigger connections between Lost and Heroes that we should list on different pages and this isn't one of them.--O r h a n 9 4 04:34, 28 June 2008 (PDT)

I don't think it should be mentioned as a bonafide connection to Heroes, but as a bit of trivia as someone suggested, since connections and similarities to books are often cited.

Jacob- maternity leave?

• On Jacob main article it says forst appearance, Maternity Leave ( by name). I think this should be changed because Tom could have meant Ben as he was the one who got Ethan to make a list. Anyone else think the same?

Ben asked for the lists, but Jacob is the one who needs the lists to make his own list. Considering the attitude shown by Tom he probably meant Jacob, since he is not really afraid of Ben. --Sauron18 10:48, 22 April 2007 (PDT)

Ron Perlman

Woot! Ron Perlman will be playing Jacob, apparently. This is SO kickass!

Sorry to disappoint you, but that was confirmed as a fake press release. The real one comes out tomorrow though. --Sauron18

The press release was fake. But I have to admit, Ron Perlman as Jacob would have been cool. Another, cooler candidate to play Jacob would be Robert Davi. He would just be awesome in the role. Evil-pineapples 11:43, 22 April 2007 (PDT)

Thomas Mittelwork is Jacob?

You'll recall that Ben told Juliet that Rachel's cancer could be cured. (It's still open for debate whether Rachel's cancer did, in fact, ever return, or if it was just another ruse by Ben). I don't recall the conversation vernatim, but I recall that he mentioned a 'man' or perhaps even Jacob by name, saying that he could cure Rachel's cancer.

I haven't seen this openly discussed yet, but what of this, from the Mittelwork page?

PT: No, he donated it to Alvar Hanso, we have no way of knowing if he gave us the real equation.

TM: Do I work for you Peter or do you work for me? Who cured your cancer? Tell me, I want to hear you say it.

PT: You did, Tom.

TM: Then this conversation is over.

This seems to me to be a direct link between Thomas' claim and Jacob's healing abilities.

Obviously, it could just be Jacob working in the background, and Mittelwork taking credit. Still, it does connect the two dots pretty nicely. --Gare ny 08:10, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

I believe that when Ben told Juliet about Jacob curing Rachel's cancer, he said "Jacob said he would see to it personally. And you trust him, don't you?" --Amberjet11 14:00, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Removed Theories

I removed a theory from the theory page because it contained a spoiler. Please do not post spoilers.--Eyeful Tower 14:19, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

Who is Jacob?

First of all I just wanted to start my therory with saying that I have no idea if this is infact true. It is just something I thought of while watching lost last night.

We first find out about Richard in, "Not in Portland," interviewing Julliet to come work with them on the island, and Julliet syays she can't because her x-husband wouldn't allow her. Julliet gets all frantinc and says, "I don't know. Hit him with a bus," which is unintentional, and the next day, Julliet's x-husband is infact hit by a bus.

Then in, "The Brig," we see Richard talking with Locke. Ricahrd says that Ben wanted to emberrace Locke. Ricahrd then says that Ben set Locke up because Ben knew that Locke wouldn't kill his own father, and that Ben wanted to show people that Locke would fail. Richard says he knew that Locke wouldn't be able to kill his own father. Then Richard says that Ben has been wasting their time on the island by doing experiments on pregnant women on the island, and that the people have to be reminded that ther are more important things on the island. Richard says that this important because when word came to the camp that someone who was in a wheelchair for four years could sudenly walk again, this ment that Locke was extremely special. Richard then tells Locke that if he can't kill his own father, then why doesn't he let someone else do it for him. Richard then gives Locke Sawyer's file, and Richard tells Locke to read it, and Richard leaves. It seemed as if Richard wanted Ben to fail at what he was trying to do.

We know that Jacob/Him wants Ben to fail because in, "The Man from Tallahasse," Ben tells Locke his two options about what he could have done to Jack. Ben then ends on both staments sayin, "that would be the end of me."

Therefore, I belive that Richard Alpert and Jacob/Him are the same person on the island because Jacob/Him wants Ben to fail, and it seems that Richard Alpert wants Ben to fail as well.

I would like it if someone would read this and that they would be able to reaspond to my therory. I would like to know other people's therory about Richard and Jacob.

Thank you,

      Lostpedia member Marko14126

I think you're wrong in suggesting Jacob wants Ben to fail. Certainly Ben's role and priorities would be severed, but currently we don't know enough about Jacob to even suggest he has a grudge against Ben. Richard has become to have a more increasewd status within the Others as of late too suggesting he could be J, but on one of the podcasts I think it was revealed that Ben,Jacob and Richard all worked with DHARAMA in the early days?--RichardAM 05:14, 4 May 2007 (PDT)

     Lostpedia member F117

I have been thinking about this : I think the character of Jacob is linked to the unabomber. In fact, both live in a small cabin in the middle of the woods, both have the same hatred for technology, and both are supposedly very smart. The unabomber had a superiority complex, maybe Jacob too...

Jacob could be Alvar Hanso

Jacob might have been Alvar Hanso! During the scene in "The Man Behind the Curtain", in which they are in Jacob's cabin during the shuffle, Ben says 'you had your fun' and is thrown agasint the wall. The camera pans right, and after a few frames, you see a man in the shadows that looks like Alvar Hanso. You can see him right before the camera cuts to a picture of John. Also the 'HELP ME' from Jacob even sounded like him. -robertunes. namaste

Magnus Hanso is also a possibility. Dharmatel4 21:44, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Could Locke be from the future

After much playing around with the Tivo, it looks like Jacob has the same scar over his right eye as Locke (noticeable the first time Jacob appears after saying "Help me"). AmarilloLostFan 21:42, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Do you have a screen shot of this? Looking around I only find a profile viewing the left side of his face, and that's also what I recall when I watched this on my DVR. Now I have to go look again. --Suddud (Talk) 21:25, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

I think I might be confused here, me and my friends are debating it. When Locke first hears Jacob say "Help me," the camera angle changes. Was this a switch to a different angle of John, or was it a cutaway to Jacob? Either way, here's a pic I took of my tv with my camera:

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g249/AdamCox/?action=view&current=DSCN0557.jpg AmarilloLostFan 21:42, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

That picture looks like Locke to me, I'm fast forwarding to this part now to get a better look. This happens around 45:31, correct? --Suddud (Talk) 21:37, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

I've got it at 44:48 of the episode AmarilloLostFan 21:42, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Ok, I see what you are talking about now. The impression I get off of this is that you hear the voice while looking at the back of Lockes' head, and then the camera cuts to show John's face as he processes what he just heard, I do not think Jacob is shown to Locke until he sees Ben thrown away from the chair and then the camera pan's back and the chair which now has the shadowy profile of the left side of Jacob's face, this happens as 45:30-31 for me. --Suddud (Talk) 21:44, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

But that's a strange cut in my opinion, plus if you notice, the man squints his eyes right before it cuts back to Locke turning around, who is wide-eyed with surprise. AmarilloLostFan 21:45, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Strange cut indeed, I think however that this is just poor editing and not a true reveal. Who knows with this show though even if the cut scene is only showing Locke, your theory is still an interesting one. --Suddud (Talk) 21:47, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

The picture linked to above is obviously just Locke, IMO. If you look at the left profile of Jacob that we see for just a second, he appears to have long, bushy hair, and I seem to remember thick, gray-white stubble; the guy in the photo in the link has neither, but rather looks just like plain old Terry O'Quinn.--Timmythegreek 22:05, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• I posted a comparison image to The Man Behind the Curtain's discussion page. Take a look at it here -->[[4]] if you think that Jacob IS Locke and vice/versa.Frankie Viturello 23:36, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

-Jacob is wearing some old-time colonial era clothing. Maybe earlier than colonial. Check out this image I found: http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/657/shadowedjacoblostrf5.jpg. I believe that is Terry O'Quinn.

It also should be noted that no actor has been credited for the role. I believe that's the first uncredited role that Lost has had so far, which might mean that the actor has already been listed (as Terry O'Quinn is in the opening credits of every show). AmarilloLostFan 06:12, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

After seeing the image comparisons mentioned earlier in this discussion along with some others floating around with contrast upgrades (although they could be altered photos) I'm under the impression that this is Terry O Quinn. I'm curious if anyone else believes that "whoever sees Jacob sees themselves" like one of the theories suggests??Sdghead 18:31, 10 May 2007 (PDT)sdghead

Move Biblical References?

Should we move the references to a page of their own? They take up a lot of the article space and don't necessarily have any importance in the show, but they are too many to keep as simple trivia. Perhaps a subpage like the theories one, but based on the bibilical references is in order. Thoughts? --Sauron18 21:30, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Anyone?--Sauron18 05:46, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

Some of the biblical references need to stay. Its important to explain the context of what "god love you as he loved jacob". Most of it should go to its own article, but a brief

summary should be preserved. Dharmatel4 08:43, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

Biblically, Jacob purchased the inheritance from Esau with a bowl of lentils, then wore a disguise to have the inheritance confirmed. A page of biblical theories and/or themes would be good. Mortifyd 07:16, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

Whose EYE IS THIS??!!

Okay, this is troubling me. John Locke has sorta steely gray eyes, and Ben has distinctively "bugged-out" eyes, but to whom do these eyes belong??? They are shown shortly after "Jacob" appears and Locke is shining the flashlight all around. The eye is someone's left eye and is only shown for a brief moment before Locke runs out the door. Discuss? The eyes are very dark, unlike Locke's light colored irises, so if Locke is meant to be Jacob, then he must be wearing colored contacts or that is not Jacob. --Frenkmelk 01:52, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• Take a look at my investigations/observations on the discussion page for "The Man Behind The Curtain"--Duvfeatherdraven 12:01, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• If this were anywhere else but this scene I would swear it was Desmond... (Isolation815 12:30, 11 May 2007 (PDT))

Head Injury?

Though the 11 frames where he appeared are poorly lit and blurred, is there a possibility that it is not his hair on the left side of his face, but rather an injury? This would fit in with the Jacob-as-ghost theory. Also, if the 'mystery eye' is his, there's blood/broken capillaries in the corner of it which would be consistent with a head wound.

Here is the fitting compilation

• This looks really photoshopped. But that's not a bad theory. (Isolation815 12:33, 11 May 2007 (PDT))
  • Thanks for that.... I'm going to have nightmares...Now I'm not suggesting it is him (unless it turns out to be him, in that case i totally said it first) but does anyone else thinks it looks like Pickett?--LostCat 13:10, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Who Plays Jacob?

Am I the only one who thinks that shot looks a bit like Brad Dourif?

I'm all for Kris Kristofferson at the moment... But Brad Dourif would be brilliant. It would be bringing one of the kings of horror actors into the show, no disrespect to Andrew Divoff  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:42, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Jacob looks a lot like Jim Beaver, you may remember him from Deadwood where he played Ellsworth. --Dhampton 22:38, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

New Picture of Jacob

this is the new picture of him —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Westsider444 (talk • contribs) .

How did you get that detail out of the face??  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  06:31, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

It looks like he just photoshopped some other face (presumably Locke) in, see Talk:The_Man_Behind_the_Curtain#Jacob_.2F_Locke_comparison_image.. That detail is certainly not there in the original image. --Henryk 13:59, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

• Actually, that's just a VERY POORLY "enhanced" (looks like they cranked the brightness and threw some kind of effect on it that cause massive pixelation.) version of the photoshop Locke/Jacob job that I did in the "The Man Behind the Curtain" discussion page. Then, for some reason they posted it on YouTube. I'm quite bitter about it. Frankie Viturello 17:35, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Suddenly seen

It seems that Jacob can only be seen by a special group of people. Locke cannot see him, but then he can (at the point which Ben is thrown against the wall). He also hears Jacob when he couldn't before.--Phil (talk) 12:04, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Locke has also never seen any of the walking dead on the island when awake. The other interesting thing to note is that Locke has not had a dream that didn't involve drugs since Day 64/65 (before his failure at the Swan). His vision quest after the Swan never really seemed right either in that all he did was save Eko so the monster could kill him the next day.

His reaction was also typical Locke. He finally gets what he wants (Jacob) and his reaction is not only to run away in fear, but to deny that it even happened. Dharmatel4 12:34, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Does Jacob hate technology?

There is a possibility that Jacob does not hate technology. Ben may have told Locke a lie because he knows something about technology (flashlights in this case) that can help Jacob. Even if Jacob did hate technology, isnt the lantern that Ben carried into the cabin yet an older form of technology? What is the difference between a flashlight and a lantern that would cause Jacob to become restless? If Ben was afraid of Jacob's wrath from technology, why would he say "you've had your fun" at someone who was presumably angry? Its almost as though Ben knows that the flashlight is out and he is trying to reassert some control over Jacob. Also, Ben's conversation and body language while talking to the empty rocking chair does not appear to be one of somebody who has great respect and awe for the person (who is easily angered) sitting in that chair. Does this help confirm the theory that Ben is holding and controlling Jacob against his will? --Rjtalbot 12:49, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

The reaction to Ben saying those things is him getting thrown across the room. Its a more violent reaction than to the flashlight or anything else. The thing to be careful of is that we only get one side of the conversation. We don't know what Jacob is saying to Ben. I dont think there anywhere near enough information to conclude anything yet about whats goes on between Ben and Jacob. Dharmatel4 14:20, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

I guess the point I was trying to make is that people on this wiki have assume that because Ben said Jacob hates technology that Jacob actually does--the violent reaction to the flashlight could have been Jacob seeing an opportunity to prove something to John rather than being angry. Ben is a pathological liar and would certainly lie if it meant keeping something important to his source of power over the Others a secret. For instance, Ben might think that if John doesnt use the flashlight that Jacob wouldnt be able to communicate with John. The hype leading up to opening the cabin door ("once I open this door, there's no turning back") could be away to scare the hell out of John ensuring that he wouldnt use the flashlight. Ben thinks that if John doesnt use the flashlight, that Jacob wouldnt be able to communicate--until Jacob finds another way ("Help Me"). Once this occurs, Ben knows that if John returns, the Others might decide to follow John because John can now talk to Jacob. To prevent this from happening, Ben reverts to Plan B--takes John to the pit and shoots him. --Rjtalbot 20:11, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Kind of an aside here--how did Ben put out the fire caused by the lantern in the cabin so quickly? I'd assume something like that could burn a tinderbox like an old cabin to the ground in seconds. --Rjtalbot 12:51, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Did Ben put out the fire? It seemed to go out... almost magically!--Phil (talk) 12:54, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

• Mmh.. Remember that there was also a whirlwind in the room (but it doesn't tell us why the Ben exits with an intact lantern). --Andreapasotti 15:19, 16 May 2007

He is Ben's captive and from the 19th century.

Take a careful look at the way he is dressed. He is wearing an old 19th century cloth and his haircut is exactly resembles that of sea captains. Also, take a look at the way he sits, intact to the chair, with his hands unseen (probably chained to the chair by Ben). He must have said "Help me" to ask aid from Locke.--GeorgeTopouria 03:13, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

• Wow, great theory!

• I was actually thinking something along those lines but more to do with the powder/ash that cicles the house at the bottom of the hill and maybe Ben is holding him there using that. Obviously have no proof what so ever to back that up.--Samit 04:56, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

I found him!

Well, I did spectroanalysis of the "help me" words, then I use FaceAnalyzer (TM) to those three frames and this eye and I found out, who Jacob really is!!!111 Click!

• haha. I actually thought, knowing how much the writers of LOST are influenced by Stephen King, of the guy that played Randall Flagg in The Stand miniseries. Especially after I noticed Jacob has long hair. Check it out.
  • I thought the exact same thing when I saw the screenshot.
• Looks very similiar. Check out his nose: it's Him! :) --Andreapasotti 15:09, 16 May 2007 (Italy)

Ben knew Locke wouldn't see Jacob

I was rewatching "The Man Behind the Curtain" and I rethought something Ben said. Usually I wouldn't give it any thought, but Ben has a habit of saying something seemingly mundane and it having a different meaning later.

The quote is (bolded for emphasis): Ben: Jacob isn't the kind of man you go and see."

To me this indicates that Ben knew Locke would be unable to see him. Ben also said "He's the kind of man who summons you."

Interesting choice of words considering the circle around Jacob's House that is similar to that used when summoning and containing an otherworldly being. --Mikhail Linus 08:29, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

I was going to add the "go and see" quote to the main page, but as I don't have a copy of the episode I'd rather not give an inexact quote. Does Ben specifically use the word "visit" or "see" regarding Jacob? --somk 11 June 2007

cite for Jacob actor

Tivia says "Jacob in "The Man Behind the Curtain" is played by Prop Master, Rob Kyker."... I haven't seen this info anywhere else, and people are still debating who played Jacob, and Damon and Carlton refused to comment about it ont he podcast. Can we get a cite? --Jackdavinci 23:15, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Agreed. I find this suspicious as well. If we don't get a cite soon it needs to be removed, since at this point it certainly seems to have been made up. Jokesnsmokes 08:46, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

That was added by Special:Contributions/Hokua. The same info was added to Wikipedia from this IP: 69.221.235.184. I wonder if they're the same person? This information has started to spread around various other sites and forums, all citing us as a source. On the basis that LP is the only place that seems to be 'proof' of this and that we don't believe it ourselves, I'm just going to take it off the article. It is more damaging for LP to have false information on it than it is to potentially miss a scoop.--TechNic|talk|conts 15:34, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Hey, interesting developement on the "Jacob Actor" thing, in a recent interview Michael Emerson confirmed that the actor who played Jacob in that scene was someone from Lost whom we've never heard speak before (and perhaps not seen). While this far from confirms that it's indeed Rob Kyker in the scene, it does lend a little more credibility to it, and in my opinion warrants some further....investigation regarding the source. --Sauron18 20:47, 15 June 2007 (PDT)

If you look under Rob Kyker it says its him on his page on the website, so Kyker might not actually be Jacob, he just lended his beautiful face for the scene, personally, I think that whatever "Jacob" really is, he controls the smoke monster or "Cerberus" system...--Collin 16:35, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

Jacob is the only real Person

Jacob is the sole survivor of Oceanic flight 815 suffering in a coma in a hospital somewhere in the world The people we see on the island are alter egos or personalities one side is good, one side evil if good prevails, Jacob awakens from his coma if evil prevails, you know the rest

This is why they see themselves when they see Jacob because they ARE looking at themselves

There are also a few possible comparisons drawn in the last few episodes

"The Man Behind The Curtain" is an allusion to "The Wizard of Oz" which was about a girl in a "coma" fighting with her "subconcious"

and

"Through The Looking Glass" is an allusion to "Alice in Wonderland" which is also about a girl who has a "subconcious" experience

--Wtoast 10:55, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

Wouldn't that be really hard to explain though? And why would they be wearing old time clothing? Reappears 08:11, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

Jacob is THE ISLAND ... and the HELP ME communication.

I believe that very soon - um - Februaryish - we may get conformation that Jacob is The Island (with a capital I), or at least the physical manifestation if it.

• Early on in Season One (DEM) Locke was "communicating" with the island and taking instructions. Some of these lead to deaths they "had" to have...i.e. Boone
• In the finale Patchy asks Ben if the "Island" told him to follow a course of action (jam the radio signals). When Ben says yes, and that "Jacob" told him to do this, that the island was under assault....it was strongly suggesting that they were talking about the same entity.
• In MBTC Locke talks to Jacob in his cabin ... Jacob says "HELP ME". Now I know that the current opinion is that Jacob's saying "Help Me From Ben", but he could be saying "Help Me From The Incursion I'm About To Get From Naomi's People."
  • This is why Ben is so frantic about getting Jack to hand back the satellite phone.
  • This is also why Locke gets a visit from Island!Walt and confronts Jack - revenge against Ben isn't on his mind at all.

Treehouse 05:31, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

• I had the same exact thought. Originally I thought Jacob was asking Locke's help in defending him against Ben for some reason. But after the finale I'm thinking Jacob might have been asking for help in preventing Naomi's people from attacking the island. --Jackdavinci 11:28, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

• Yeah, this is what I've been thinking too. I think, however, that the Island itself might just be the place, while Jacob is what Locke has been referring to as "The Island", whatever is protecting it. So yeah, he's definitely being speaking to John for a while, with the whole plane thing, then the episode "Further Instructions", and all of that stuff. Can't wait for season 4 :) --Sauron18 13:07, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

Thats well thought, could be a possiblity... -JASMEET

Have a page named "Jakob" that redirects to "Jacob."

Some people may think his name is spelt "Jakob," so I think that "Jakob" should redirect to "Jacob." "Jakob," afterall, is a common alternative spelling to "Jacob." --Xanthom 11:13, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

not a bad idea. and really, who's it going to hurt?The-room 11:20, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Jacob Casting Survey

We should have a vote to suggest to the producers whom they should cast as Jacob. My nomination is William B. Davis--the Cigarette Smoking Man from X-Files.

brianlane723

Harry Shearer (Mr. Burns from The Simpsons), just kidding, I really don't know who should get the role. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 11:07, 13 June 2007 (PDT)

We need to have the master of horror on this one, the man who makes 13 year olds pee their pants, Mr. Michael "Bleach myself" Jackson! --Collin 16:37, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

Composited Image

I think the "Composited image of the mysterious eye onto Jacob's silhouette" is kind of pointless and should be removed. As far as I was aware there hasn't even been someone auditioned yet. So it makes no sense, we're just looking at an extra. codu ^(t)⁄_(c) •  12:04, 20 June 2007 (PDT)

I agree, the eye isn't even at the right angle, and in my opinion it just takes up space and makes the whole article look more disorganized. I think this article is in a serious need of a cleanup. --Sauron18 05:47, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

"God loves you as he loved Jacob"

I'm a bit fuzzy on the character who said this and in which episode so if someone can fill that out then I'd be grateful, but one of The Others once said that god can't see The Island, this might mean that Jacob, possibly biblical Jacob, was either banished or somehow brought to The Island by God.

• The quote was first introduced in Not In Portland in the brainwashing video. Later in Stranger In A Strange Land Karl says that direct quote. You are thinking of Ben who said that God can't see the island. BETTYFIZZW (Talk) 11:34, 2 July 2007 (PDT)

--- In the questions section on the main page, this one is represented: What is the meaning of "God loves you as He loved Jacob" in Room 23? And why did it also say this in the Orchid video?

I think the latter one might not be a real question, as the tape holding the orientation video had clearly been recorded over several times. We can see fragments from the Swan video (Hanso building+DeGroot), something that resembles a home video (bicycle), and finally fragments from the 'brainwashing video' with the given text string. I don't think those scenes were planted by Dharma at all, and why would they as they make absolutely no sense on their own, and crediting them to old technology would give an extremely natural explanation. Would anyone mind if I removed that question, or do you still consider it unanswered?

PS. Just noticed that my reasoning would actually pretty much prove the brainwashing video being of Dharma origin (and not recorded by the others) ;) But that's another story for another day.

Jacob = vision of Ben's Dad theory on DarkUFO

Has anyone read this, or included it in any section of Jacob? I can't find it anywhere here, but it's a great theory that holds a lot of water and demystifies a lot of the dangling strangeness. http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2007/05/jacob-is-apparition-of-bens-dead-father.html --Brother 10:34, 5 January 2008 (PST)

Different voice in Locke "Crazy" promo.

In the special character promos they ran during the enhanced TTLG on Wed, the Cabin Scene where Jacob Speaks "help me" is said in a completely different tone and possibly another actor altogether. Anyone agree?--Frenkmelk 23:07, 31 January 2008 (PST)

Could be. That scene had pretty loud background music originally. For the music videos I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have access to the original unmixed sources and just took things straight from the final edits. It was probably just easier to have some random person grab a mic and say the line again. But I definitely wouldn't overanalyze it. --Minderbinder 14:20, 1 February 2008 (PST)

Wrong season referred to

In section 1.2.3 of the Jacob/Theories page, it says

It was hinted in the Official Lost Podcast that the Monster was visible in Season 2, but perhaps wasn't noticeable

and then goes on to talk about a smoke/shadow hand pushing Ben in "The Man Behind the Curtain". The Monster was clearly visible in Season 3 episode Left Behind anyway. Surely this implies that the Official Lost Podcast hinted that the Monster was visible in Season 3, not Season 2. Shouldn't that be fixed? It had me confused. --Sean Vickery 09:54, 22 February 2008 (PST)

Hurley meets Jacob

[5]

Anybody else think this eye belongs to Miles? Beeth 12:27, 25 February 2008 (PST)

Maybe Miles knew about Jacob and used his weird Voodoo, ghost talking powers to communicate, good find--Collin 16:43, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

" Jacob's connections "

YOU cant just ignore all the coincidences can you? i m talking about Biblically jacob being aaron's great grandfather, now Christian is aaron's grandfather. Now i dont think i would be going too far saying that Christian "Shepherd" could be Jacob's son. Moreover Jacob was regarded as the 1st Shepherd. you cant ignore all these relations... And maybe That's why AARON was the ONLY CHILD BORN on the island. And that's why he is so important to the story. Moreover Charlie tells jack(via Hurley) that he is not supposed to raise AARON. Why is AARON so important that dead ppl are emerging to tell what to do or what not to do regarding that child?

-Jasmeet

Did anyone ever notice that Jacob looks like Dennis Hopper! A LOT!

Horace Goodspeed

I think the picture on the front page is Horace Goodspeed, not Jacob. After all, it is Horace' cabin, why wouldn't his ghost hang out there?

• I am distinquishing Horace and Jacob as 2 different people, but I am also open to the possibility they are the same person.73rd survivor 12:48, 15 May 2008 (PDT)

Cleanup

If the proposed clean up is going to happen I think it should be a joint effort. How about we each take one section to clean up whilst other users do the same for the other sections. So, any volunteers? - we'll need a few - I'm willing anyway.-- 4 8 15 16 23 42  talk  contribs  email  11:20, 20 May 2008 (PDT)

I'd be willing to help out. --michael_is_in_the_coffin 15:22, 21 May 2008 (PDT)

Excellent! I've already updated the introduction and tidied up the 'Presentation of Jacob' but when I find time i'll cleanup some more. Maybe you could start on the 'On Island' section and i'll join you.-- 4 8 15 16 23 42  talk  contribs  email  03:36, 22 May 2008 (PDT)

Sounds good! I'll get to it later today. --michael_is_in_the_coffin 06:19, 22 May 2008 (PDT)

OK, I've tidied up the 'On the Island' section but I think the biblical references and trivia section still needs tidying up.-- 4 8 15 16 23 42  talk  contribs  email  07:58, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

Whoops... I think we stepped on each other's toes with clean-ups for "On the Island". How should we consolidate? --michael_is_in_the_coffin 08:55, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

Oh... Thats a bit annoying, but at the same time funny; OK i'll go through it and sort of 'mix and match' and merge both of our edits. I think I was a bit too eager. Thanks!-- 4 8 15 16 23 42  talk  contribs  email  09:12, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

Thanks for consolidating. I'll do the biblical references section tonight or tomorrow morning. --michael_is_in_the_coffin 10:35, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

Oh, I didn't see this talk section until after I had done it. Hope I didn't inadvertently step onto anyone's turf. Please review my changes to the trivia and biblical ref section. Kevrock 13:36, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

Well actually I think that you've finished off the clean up. So Thanksmichael_is_in_the_coffin and Kevrock!-- 4 8 15 16 23 42  talk  contribs  email  14:19, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

Great! Good work everyone! Enjoy your memorial day holidays! --michael_is_in_the_coffin 18:42, 25 May 2008 (PDT)

Biblical References

Some of the Bibilical references should have cross references to the verse they are from in the Bible. --CTS 19:53, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

I was thinking of that, too, but its well beyond my Biblical understanding. Kevrock 11:19, 25 May 2008 (PDT)

How many?

Is it really correct to say that Locke had two encounters with Jacob? Unless Jacob appeared in the cabin after Locke asked, "How do I save the Island?" and Locke emerged, Locke had one encounter with Jacob and one with Jacob's spokesman.--Jim in Georgia Talk Contribs 17:54, 5 July 2008 (PDT)

Theory page vandalism

Can someone clean up the mess Babushka27 made on the theories page?--Deus ex Machina 08:02, sometime June or July 2008 (PDT)

I think the theory page looks good. Can someone clean up the unsigned entries on the talk page?<smile>--Jim in Georgia Talk Contribs 18:14, 9 July 2008 (PDT)

Signed. He wiped out the entire "possible identities" section and replaced it with "possible reincarnations of".--Deus ex Machina 08:02, 27 July 2008 (PDT)